Of course, I don’t. … Of course, I don’t. I am a fervent supporter of the free market.
But as much as one wishes to confound the two, there is a very clear distinction in the methods, if not the objectives, of socialist democracies and communist dictatorships
Without a massive … Without a massive domestic market to make a financial foundation, this wouldn’t be possible. A free-market is a beautiful thing because it raises the standard of living for everybody. War, cronyism, price-setting, etc. are all negative things are contrary to a free-market.
Capitalism is what made America great, and the absence of capitalism is what is making it very very ugly.
I dig. It’s a … I dig. It’s a cartel, between the state and the big banks. Banks haven’t been free-market for almost a century, even more. If banks were free-market entities they would have shied away from so much risk in these derivatives. Why did they take the risk? Government safeguards like the FDIC, cheap money from an inflationary FR, as well as Fannie and Freddie underwriting 50% of the mortgages. You take away those three things, and you wouldn’t have the financial crisis that we have today.
Why not skip the … Why not skip the middle-man? Money can and has been created by private businesses in the past. It still is a commodity, even though you make an interesting argument to the contrary… It is a unique commodity in that anyone will accept it for almost anything else. But it is a commodity nonetheless and is subject to forces of supply and demand. If supply goes up (money expansion) then value/price goes down. Same with demand, with more production demand goes up and the price/value goes up.
I like your … I like your viewpoint, Dilbertgeg It seems we both agree that the FR is bad. Now you’re saying that WE the people can control money supply through congress, and I simply do not trust congress enough to print money. It wasn’t the Federal Reserve that created all these big government programs, it was Congress. If you give them a printing press, there’s no indication that they will cut spending to preserve the value of the dollar.
Practically, it comes down to a couple choices. Obvs, EVERYONE cannot create “money” as “legal tender”.
If EVERYONE can’t create it, then ONLY Govt-LICENSED banks could.
Sensible is WE create it, via OUR Reps who SERVE us.
Gold is commodity. Money not.
In past, “gold was dug up then placed back underground in basement vaults in NY”. Gold incompat w modern commerce, but Fed/Banks is wrong solutn to chaotic private FR banking of 1800s.
reefpirate,
… reefpirate,
Michael Hudson connected the dots in just a sideways word that “THE GOVERNMENT” at least in the US is really John Q. Public. That’s not some “overlord”. That’s WE the People.
Zarlenga points out that Money is NOT a commodity and he explains why, but you have to be willing to see. Money, when successful, has always been a public good defined in Law, and NOT a private good. Practically, … contin
There is a strange … There is a strange breed of racist libertarian/constitutionalists out there, and some have donated monies to the RP campaign. However, I think it’s fallacious to then say that RP is racist because of this.
Lincoln invented the greenback, so I’m not surprised he was anti-gold. And I agree, the Congress should not be allowed to print money either. Money is a commodity, so trade it like any other commodity on the free market. Why do we need an overlord to set the price?
rp,
I saw a photo … rp,
I saw a photo of RP shaking hands with KKK leader in Mich. Guy is precinct delegate, so it’s possible RP didn’t know guy was KKK. Could you ask him, please?
Jefferson and Lincoln did not argue for Gold (which restricts money expansion and causes dollar inflation, chokes business), but opposed Ham’s PRIVATE corporation central bank. Fed Bankers argued they can’t trust Congress w public central bank (per Constitution!), due to “politics” aka We The People, demanded ANTI-democratic bank.
reefpirate,
… reefpirate,
Buffet’s remarks may have been ‘reckless’ to his class, but he’s honest about that anyhow.
You can’t even join their clubs w less than $10 million, per NY Times. A handful of hundred-millionaires and billionaires, nowadays mostly finance capital (private tax via interest and fees) is the ruling class, rich class he speaks of. Not small biz and doctors and such.
As Nomi Prins said, they write bonuses on public dime, openly, seemingly wo a worry. They own the confusion box too.
@ Jamesmaseo,
… @ Jamesmaseo,
everything you said is right, except how Obama “found this out” after the election.
You imply Obama went thru process of Brzezinski/Rockefeller “choosing” him, then Wall St bondholders and bankers vetting him, and he did not know they owned him until after election. O’s “no fat cat” speech was theater, just like Bush’s cowboy persona and and Christian persona. Staged. Managed. Public relations experts. Psy-warfare. Media. Edward Bernays explained it in 28, Brzezinski in 73.
Altho I too blame … Altho I too blame the Fed for what it does, i think extorting taxes for interest is NOT one of those things.
Fed refund all T-bill interest to US Treasury.
Fed helps ‘organize’ private commercial banks so they can charge 5% 20% 30% etc. Maybe you don’t have consumer debt. Maybe your house is F & C. But every commodity and service is laden with interest charges in supply mfg and dist chain, a private “VAT tax”.
Govt pays interest to private T-bill holders, they do not refund interest.
I was once duped … I was once duped into believing Fed’s bullshit that they are a govt agency. Wrong. They are 12 Private interlinked banks. Greenspan said they ANSWER TO NO ONE. Bernanke refused to answer Congress, ignored Bloomberg.
Banks CREATE LIQUIDITY by writing loans.
Fed performs for it’s shareholders, and then only to majors and friends. Private commerc banks buy Fed stock. GOVT DOES NOT CONTROL THE FED. MONEY wrote the rules. They appointed Obama (really). They chose Bush for his cowboy persona.
contin) … contin) Deregulated Banks and unreg Hedge Funds bet on known trash w credit, used trash “assets” as collateral, spent OUR MONEY — like gambling addict owing his bookie.
But they are powerful. They own the track and horses. Paulson, Geithner, other high positions in Govt Finance. Rigged so they could pocket quick profits, then dump inevitable losses on govt.
Obama ‘enabled’ them, true, but Wall St top dogs vetted Obama to serve THEM. O’s doing a great job — for them! Record profits. Dig?
Nomi Prins, … Nomi Prins, formerly of Goldman-Sachs and worked @ Citigroup when she was 19. She explains very well, in print and interviews.
The Rich bought houses they could not afford, to flip them. Poor bought houses told they could re-fi in 2 years when value went up.
But Prins explains how Banks/Investors PILED layers and layers of DEBT on top of mortgages they knew were trash but rated AAA. Derivatives mkt is 1000s times larger than total mortgages, but no underlying value.
I couldn’t help it, … I couldn’t help it, one more: This is from the president of the Austin, TX branch of the NAACP, and friend of Paul’s for 20 years:
“I think he is trying to improve this country but I think also, when you talk about the Constitution and you constantly criticize the federal government versus state I think a lot of folks are going to misconstrue that….so I think it’s very easy for folks who want to to take his position out of context and that’s what I’m hearing,” said Linder.
One more for ya: … One more for ya: This from the David Duke website protesting the fact that Ron Paul called MLK his hero and had a fundraising money-bomb on MLK day.:
The fact that Ron Paul would call King his hero and promote a Ron Paul money bomb on Martin Luther King Day is disgraceful.
David Duke is an open anti-semite and clearly racist… Paul is not. Duke criticizes Paul for liking MLK… so what the is your problem?
The “fleet-footed” … The “fleet-footed” quote was from the same article… I don’t like defending these quotes. I don’t agree with the way they were written nor their content. However, none of them were written by Ron Paul. Please try again.
Paul has openly criticized these quotes saying that he never talks like that, never makes personal attacks, and never criticizes groups of people unless they are getting unfair handouts from the government.
Please get some real Ron Paul quotes. Maybe you’ll learn something.
Ok, I looked them … Ok, I looked them up, and it turns out these are the same quotes people used against him before… The fact is he never wrote any of them. Also, some are out of context. Eg:
MLK day, this was an argument, not made by Ron Paul, against having federal holidays for anybody, not just black civil rights leaders.
The 95 percent of the black males quote… Do you know anything about D.C? It was in response to a Justice Department study saying that 85% of all black males had been arrested in DC.
Paul has referenced … Paul has referenced MLK in several ways in a favourable manner… Where did you get these quotes? Quotes usually come with sources… I’d honestly like to check these out, so please tell me where they came from.
Where in my comment … Where in my comment did I say that? No, I don’t trust the government, despite what party is in control. Presidents, come and go, but the real people in power are silent, and they’re the ones who are in control. Obama found this out when he came to power. That’s the reason why this healthcare bill is such a tragidy.
Oh, and also stop … Oh, and also stop thinking that FDR was some sort of hero… Between him and Hoover we had some of the worst economic policies ever introduced. This is why I get worried when people think that Obama might be the next FDR… That would be the worst possible outcome if he emulated FDR in any way.
Watch more at http://www.theyoungturks.com
March 12th, 2010 at 4:38 pm
Of course, I don’t. …
Of course, I don’t. I am a fervent supporter of the free market.
But as much as one wishes to confound the two, there is a very clear distinction in the methods, if not the objectives, of socialist democracies and communist dictatorships
March 12th, 2010 at 4:38 pm
Ok, I won’t. So …
Ok, I won’t. So long as you agree to not confuse capitalism with socialism either.
March 12th, 2010 at 4:38 pm
Without a massive …
Without a massive domestic market to make a financial foundation, this wouldn’t be possible. A free-market is a beautiful thing because it raises the standard of living for everybody. War, cronyism, price-setting, etc. are all negative things are contrary to a free-market.
Capitalism is what made America great, and the absence of capitalism is what is making it very very ugly.
March 12th, 2010 at 4:38 pm
I dig. It’s a …
I dig. It’s a cartel, between the state and the big banks. Banks haven’t been free-market for almost a century, even more. If banks were free-market entities they would have shied away from so much risk in these derivatives. Why did they take the risk? Government safeguards like the FDIC, cheap money from an inflationary FR, as well as Fannie and Freddie underwriting 50% of the mortgages. You take away those three things, and you wouldn’t have the financial crisis that we have today.
March 12th, 2010 at 4:38 pm
Why not skip the …
Why not skip the middle-man? Money can and has been created by private businesses in the past. It still is a commodity, even though you make an interesting argument to the contrary… It is a unique commodity in that anyone will accept it for almost anything else. But it is a commodity nonetheless and is subject to forces of supply and demand. If supply goes up (money expansion) then value/price goes down. Same with demand, with more production demand goes up and the price/value goes up.
March 12th, 2010 at 4:38 pm
I like your …
It seems we both agree that the FR is bad. Now you’re saying that WE the people can control money supply through congress, and I simply do not trust congress enough to print money. It wasn’t the Federal Reserve that created all these big government programs, it was Congress. If you give them a printing press, there’s no indication that they will cut spending to preserve the value of the dollar.
I like your viewpoint, Dilbertgeg
March 12th, 2010 at 4:38 pm
reef, continued
…
reef, continued
Practically, it comes down to a couple choices. Obvs, EVERYONE cannot create “money” as “legal tender”.
If EVERYONE can’t create it, then ONLY Govt-LICENSED banks could.
Sensible is WE create it, via OUR Reps who SERVE us.
Gold is commodity. Money not.
In past, “gold was dug up then placed back underground in basement vaults in NY”. Gold incompat w modern commerce, but Fed/Banks is wrong solutn to chaotic private FR banking of 1800s.
Fiat money WE create is not tyrannical.
March 12th, 2010 at 4:38 pm
reefpirate,
…
reefpirate,
Michael Hudson connected the dots in just a sideways word that “THE GOVERNMENT” at least in the US is really John Q. Public. That’s not some “overlord”. That’s WE the People.
Zarlenga points out that Money is NOT a commodity and he explains why, but you have to be willing to see. Money, when successful, has always been a public good defined in Law, and NOT a private good. Practically, … contin
March 12th, 2010 at 4:38 pm
There is a strange …
There is a strange breed of racist libertarian/constitutionalists out there, and some have donated monies to the RP campaign. However, I think it’s fallacious to then say that RP is racist because of this.
Lincoln invented the greenback, so I’m not surprised he was anti-gold. And I agree, the Congress should not be allowed to print money either. Money is a commodity, so trade it like any other commodity on the free market. Why do we need an overlord to set the price?
March 12th, 2010 at 4:38 pm
rp,
I saw a photo …
rp,
I saw a photo of RP shaking hands with KKK leader in Mich. Guy is precinct delegate, so it’s possible RP didn’t know guy was KKK. Could you ask him, please?
Jefferson and Lincoln did not argue for Gold (which restricts money expansion and causes dollar inflation, chokes business), but opposed Ham’s PRIVATE corporation central bank. Fed Bankers argued they can’t trust Congress w public central bank (per Constitution!), due to “politics” aka We The People, demanded ANTI-democratic bank.
March 12th, 2010 at 4:38 pm
reefpirate,
…
reefpirate,
Buffet’s remarks may have been ‘reckless’ to his class, but he’s honest about that anyhow.
You can’t even join their clubs w less than $10 million, per NY Times. A handful of hundred-millionaires and billionaires, nowadays mostly finance capital (private tax via interest and fees) is the ruling class, rich class he speaks of. Not small biz and doctors and such.
As Nomi Prins said, they write bonuses on public dime, openly, seemingly wo a worry. They own the confusion box too.
March 12th, 2010 at 4:38 pm
@ Jamesmaseo,
…
@ Jamesmaseo,
everything you said is right, except how Obama “found this out” after the election.
You imply Obama went thru process of Brzezinski/Rockefeller “choosing” him, then Wall St bondholders and bankers vetting him, and he did not know they owned him until after election. O’s “no fat cat” speech was theater, just like Bush’s cowboy persona and and Christian persona. Staged. Managed. Public relations experts. Psy-warfare. Media. Edward Bernays explained it in 28, Brzezinski in 73.
March 12th, 2010 at 4:38 pm
Altho I too blame …
Altho I too blame the Fed for what it does, i think extorting taxes for interest is NOT one of those things.
Fed refund all T-bill interest to US Treasury.
Fed helps ‘organize’ private commercial banks so they can charge 5% 20% 30% etc. Maybe you don’t have consumer debt. Maybe your house is F & C. But every commodity and service is laden with interest charges in supply mfg and dist chain, a private “VAT tax”.
Govt pays interest to private T-bill holders, they do not refund interest.
March 12th, 2010 at 4:38 pm
I was once duped …
I was once duped into believing Fed’s bullshit that they are a govt agency. Wrong. They are 12 Private interlinked banks. Greenspan said they ANSWER TO NO ONE. Bernanke refused to answer Congress, ignored Bloomberg.
Banks CREATE LIQUIDITY by writing loans.
Fed performs for it’s shareholders, and then only to majors and friends. Private commerc banks buy Fed stock. GOVT DOES NOT CONTROL THE FED. MONEY wrote the rules. They appointed Obama (really). They chose Bush for his cowboy persona.
March 12th, 2010 at 4:38 pm
contin) …
contin) Deregulated Banks and unreg Hedge Funds bet on known trash w credit, used trash “assets” as collateral, spent OUR MONEY — like gambling addict owing his bookie.
But they are powerful. They own the track and horses. Paulson, Geithner, other high positions in Govt Finance. Rigged so they could pocket quick profits, then dump inevitable losses on govt.
Obama ‘enabled’ them, true, but Wall St top dogs vetted Obama to serve THEM. O’s doing a great job — for them! Record profits. Dig?
March 12th, 2010 at 4:38 pm
Nomi Prins, …
Nomi Prins, formerly of Goldman-Sachs and worked @ Citigroup when she was 19. She explains very well, in print and interviews.
The Rich bought houses they could not afford, to flip them. Poor bought houses told they could re-fi in 2 years when value went up.
But Prins explains how Banks/Investors PILED layers and layers of DEBT on top of mortgages they knew were trash but rated AAA. Derivatives mkt is 1000s times larger than total mortgages, but no underlying value.
March 12th, 2010 at 4:38 pm
Oh, and you only …
Oh, and you only attempted to answer my first question (and failed)… so please go on to answer the next two:
2. How can anyone force creationism down anyone’s throat if you abolish the Department of Education as president?
3. What’s wrong with the gold standard? You can’t print money?
March 12th, 2010 at 4:38 pm
I couldn’t help it, …
I couldn’t help it, one more: This is from the president of the Austin, TX branch of the NAACP, and friend of Paul’s for 20 years:
“I think he is trying to improve this country but I think also, when you talk about the Constitution and you constantly criticize the federal government versus state I think a lot of folks are going to misconstrue that….so I think it’s very easy for folks who want to to take his position out of context and that’s what I’m hearing,” said Linder.
Great interview.
March 12th, 2010 at 4:38 pm
One more for ya: …
One more for ya: This from the David Duke website protesting the fact that Ron Paul called MLK his hero and had a fundraising money-bomb on MLK day.:
The fact that Ron Paul would call King his hero and promote a Ron Paul money bomb on Martin Luther King Day is disgraceful.
David Duke is an open anti-semite and clearly racist… Paul is not. Duke criticizes Paul for liking MLK… so what the is your problem?
March 12th, 2010 at 4:38 pm
The “fleet-footed” …
The “fleet-footed” quote was from the same article… I don’t like defending these quotes. I don’t agree with the way they were written nor their content. However, none of them were written by Ron Paul. Please try again.
Paul has openly criticized these quotes saying that he never talks like that, never makes personal attacks, and never criticizes groups of people unless they are getting unfair handouts from the government.
Please get some real Ron Paul quotes. Maybe you’ll learn something.
March 12th, 2010 at 4:38 pm
Ok, I looked them …
Ok, I looked them up, and it turns out these are the same quotes people used against him before… The fact is he never wrote any of them. Also, some are out of context. Eg:
MLK day, this was an argument, not made by Ron Paul, against having federal holidays for anybody, not just black civil rights leaders.
The 95 percent of the black males quote… Do you know anything about D.C? It was in response to a Justice Department study saying that 85% of all black males had been arrested in DC.
March 12th, 2010 at 4:38 pm
Paul has referenced …
Paul has referenced MLK in several ways in a favourable manner… Where did you get these quotes? Quotes usually come with sources… I’d honestly like to check these out, so please tell me where they came from.
March 12th, 2010 at 4:38 pm
He referred to MLK …
He referred to MLK day as ” annual Hate Whitey Day.”
“If you have ever been robbed by a black teen-aged male, you know how unbelievably fleet-footed they can be”
“I think we can safely assume that 95 percent of the black males in that city are semi-criminal or entirely criminal
Not racist at all.
March 12th, 2010 at 4:38 pm
Where in my comment …
Where in my comment did I say that? No, I don’t trust the government, despite what party is in control. Presidents, come and go, but the real people in power are silent, and they’re the ones who are in control. Obama found this out when he came to power. That’s the reason why this healthcare bill is such a tragidy.
March 12th, 2010 at 4:38 pm
Oh, and also stop …
Oh, and also stop thinking that FDR was some sort of hero… Between him and Hoover we had some of the worst economic policies ever introduced. This is why I get worried when people think that Obama might be the next FDR… That would be the worst possible outcome if he emulated FDR in any way.